Discussioni utente:Vyeh/Sandbox

from Discussioni_progetto:Popular_music#Is_Indiggo_"enciclopediche"?

[@ Astio_k] our last two comments from Discussioni_progetto:Popular_music#Is_Indiggo_"enciclopediche"?. Vyeh (msg) 12:28, 23 set 2018 (CEST)

According to iTunes, the album was released 9/21 and can be purchased for $12.99. Vyeh (msg) 06:47, 23 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] : this is good. I added it in the Discografia [1].

But please, I'm not understand why U signed the sentence about Indiggo in the Utente:Vyeh/Sandbox with “(Sony BMG)” instead of “Bild” [2]:

«Deutschland steht Kopf, wenn die beiden Rumäninnen Gabriela und Michaela im Lande sind. Kein Wunder! Denn die 22-jährigen Zwillinge, die sich Indiggo nennen, sehen nicht nur aus wie internationale Models, sondern sind auch noch mit musikalischem Talent reichlich gesegnet worden!»

In the italian Wikipedia, any citation from the label is considered “commercial promotion”, and isn't good. But in this case, the source seems the german newspaper Bild.

 astio  discussioni  11:44, 23 set 2018 (CEST)

Origin of Sandbox Article

The material in the sandbox is the Italian article Indiggo, from a few days before it was deleted. I had made a couple of other changes to that article (deleting an irrelevant source), using the NYT source instead of a YouTube self-published source to support that "La La La" was in Murder to Excellence and removing the NYT source as support for a sentence about America's Got Talent. These were lost when Indiggo was deleted. Vyeh (msg) 12:28, 23 set 2018 (CEST)

Plan

Thank you for your help. I propose this plan:

1. Recreate lost edits.
2. Reorganize existing text following Wikipedia:Modello_di_voce/Artisti_musicali
3. Update article to include information about their show, their new album. Here I will need your help in writing the Italian text for these two sections.

I should be able to accomplish the first item within 24 hours and the second item within a week. The third item requires that I learn to convert the existing English wikipedia citations into Italian wikipedia citations.

What do you think about this plan? Vyeh (msg) 12:28, 23 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] :

1. ok
2. ok → ask us about any issue
3. write the sections in english, then I translate in italian language.

 astio  discussioni  15:48, 25 set 2018 (CEST)

Recreating lost Indiggo edits

I removed "<ref>{{cita web|url=http://www.last.fm/music/Loredana+Sachelaru/+similar|titolo=Similar artists to Loredana Sachelaru|editore=Last.fm|data=26 novembre 2013|accesso=25 marzo 2014|lingua=en}}</ref>." It is irrelevant.

I moved "<ref>{{cita web|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/arts/music/jay-z-and-kanye-wests-watch-the-throne.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0|nome=Jon|cognome=Caramancia|titolo=Two Titans Share the Seat of Power|editore=''[[The New York Times]]''|data=9 agosto 2011|accesso=24 febbraio 2014|lingua=en}}</ref>" to support "Nell'album di debutto della collaborazione tra i rapper Jay-Z e Kanye West, Watch the Throne, è presente come traccia la canzone LA LA LA di Indiggo." It is irrelevant in its former place. In the latter place, it is direct support.

I removed "<ref>{{cita web|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT5_EB4OMuU|titolo=INDIGGO Twins-MURDER TO EXCELLENCE La La La-JAY-Z & KANYE WEST-WATCH THE THRONE|editore=[[You Tube]]|data=06 novembre 2013|lingua=en}}</ref>" as support for the sentence above. It is self-published. Vyeh (msg) 15:07, 25 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] : wait. About NYT source [3] : Jay-Z and Kanye West really used a sample of an Indiggo song, and names of romanian twins are listed in the credits [4] of the album Watch the Throne, song Murder to Excellence. I think U can just write “è stato usato un campione della canzone LA LA LA delle Indiggo” instead of “è presente come traccia la canzone LA LA LA di Indiggo” ... but are U sure the sampled song is LA LA LA ?

 astio  discussioni  16:12, 25 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Astio_k] Yes. PDF digital booklet for "Watch The Throne" says, "Contains samples from “La La La,” written and performed by Mihaela and Gabriela Modorcea aka Indiggo Twins." Vyeh (msg) 16:44, 25 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] : “Contains samples from “La La La”, written and performed by Mihaela and Gabriela Modorcea aka Indiggo Twins, ambassadors of the great Romanian tradition.” [5]. A sample is a minor artistic contribution, but still an artistic contribution made on original song written and performed by the twins. The words printed on the booklet – we presume by the encyclopedic [6] [7] rappers duo – are a tribute to the Indiggo Twins, with relative and not absolute value (of course) but value. And all these are facts. So, in my opinion the NYT and booklet sources are valid.

 astio  discussioni  18:29, 25 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Astio_k] Last page of digital booklet says “Executive Producers Kanye West Shawn Carter” (Shawn Carter is the name of Jay-Z [8].) We can say that the statement is by the encyclopedic rappers. NYT article is a review of Watch The Throne. As a reliable source focused on Watch the Throne, its statement about Indiggo's sample being included has great authority. In English wikipedia, booklet is considered published and valid as a source for a statement by the publisher. It would be fair to say the encyclopedic rappers said, Indiggo are "ambassadors of the great Romanian tradition." Vyeh (msg) 20:38, 25 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] : the statement maybe isn't “very” important, but is a fact. And in facts, twin sisters are “ambassadors” of romanian tradition, because they promoted romanian culture in the theatral and discographic works through the years.  astio  discussioni  17:49, 26 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Astio_k] Thanks to you, I wrote "In August 2011, rappers Jay-Z and Kanye West, “kings of hip hop," released their first collaborative album, ‘’Watch the Throne’’.[1] They describe Indiggo as “ambassadors of the great Romanian tradition.” [1][14]" Footnotes are "[1]Caramancia, Jon (August 9, 2011), "Two Titans Share the Seat of Power", The New York Times, New York City, New York, retrieved August 12, 2018" and "[14]West, Kanye; Carter, Shawn, Watch the Throne PDF digital booklet, p. 13" In Bibliography, "West, Kanye; Carter, Shawn (2011), Watch the Throne (PDF digital booklet), Universal Music Group." As you say, it is a fact that belongs in an encyclopedia. I will think about "they promoted romanian culture in the theatral and discographic works through the years." I may have some support for facts that support that theme. Thank you so much. Vyeh (msg) 18:37, 26 set 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] : U are welcome.  astio  discussioni  19:19, 26 set 2018 (CEST)

First draft meeting the requirements of Wikipedia:Modello di voce/Artisti musicali#Artisti musicali e/o altre voci correlate while retaining most of the existing material.

[@ Astio_k] I shortened the lead section to the single sentence specified in Wikipedia:Modello_di_voce/Artisti_musicali#Artisti_musicali_e/o_altre_voci_correlate. I modified the infobox. I took out a subheading for Story. Please

• Cut out anything in the Story section that doesn't belong.
• Please translate into Italian, 'In 2018, they released their cast album, "Wicked Clone - The Cinema Musical."'

I added "Formazione" Please check.

I moved "Filmografia."

I added "Altre voci correlate." Please translate.

I modified the external links section. Please translate.

Once you have cut and rearrange, if necessary, the "Storia" section, I will go through and correct the sources and add the sources for my additions. Can you provide the links to the citation templates?

Thank you for your assistance. Vyeh (msg) 18:53, 3 ott 2018 (CEST)

I added the sources to my English additions. Vyeh (msg) 15:49, 4 ott 2018 (CEST)

[@ Vyeh] : in these days I'm very busy. Soon as possible, I read all your words, and I back to help this page.

 astio  discussioni  15:02, 5 ott 2018 (CEST)

[@ Astio_k] Thank you for informing me. Take your time. It would be most helpful if you first cut "Storia." Vyeh (msg) 22:11, 5 ott 2018 (CEST)