Discussione:Steel tongue drum

Name of Gombadrum is Gombadrum and not hankdrum

The vendor of this instrument calls it Gombadrum not hankdrum. "hank drum" was a funny term created as joke in an internet forum and related to Dennis Havlena's original instrument. See: http://gombadrums.de/wordpress/?lang=en --78.94.160.60 (msg) 15:43, 30 lug 2012 (CEST) (I am user Ixkeys in the German and English Wikipedia and a main editor of the German and English Hang article and the German Steel Tongue Drum article.)

Steelpan and Hang are not Progenitore

Steelpan and Hang are not Progenitore of the steel tongue drum. The instrument technique and the sound are completely different. Dennis Havlena was only inspired by the round tone layout of the Hang. --78.94.160.60 (msg) 15:43, 30 lug 2012 (CEST) (I am user Ixkeys in the German and English Wikipedia and a main editor of the German and English Hang article and the German Steel Tongue Drum article.)

Even the sound of the electric mandolin is completely different from the mandola's one, but the second one is the first's "Progenitore". I have a steel tongue drum and the sound is not completely different (yes, a bit difference must be, otherwise they would be the same instrument); the only things that care on Wikipedia are the sources, not just your opinion or just your works on the orther version of Wiki.

P.S. If you are Ixkeys (I don't really care who you are), could you write with that user account? --Horcrux92. ^(contattami) 16:29, 30 lug 2012 (CEST)

You are right with your mandola example: The mandolino elettrico is a mandola with pickup. To create a mandolino elettrico a mandola was taken and something added to the instrument. Therefor the mandola is the progenitore or Antecedente of mandolino elettrico. The sound doesn't matter here. The sound creating structures and functions of both instruments are identical.

Steelpan and Hang on the one hand and steel tongue drum on the other hand belong to two different instrument categories. The sound of a steel tongue drum is created by tongues like the sound of the wooden tongue drum and the Kalimba. The sound of the steelpan and the Hang is created by structures in the surfaces of the instrument. This sort of sound creation have similarities with gongs and cymbals. The surface of these instrument is not cut. It is worked out by hammers or other means to introduce the sound creating structures. As far as I know Dennis Havlena therefor never stated, that functions, materials or manufacturing methods of his instrument derived from the Hang (and as far as I know he never mentioned the steelpan). It was only the circular tone layout that he took from the Hang to create his do-it-yourself instrument. He was motivated to build his new instrument because he was not able to purchase a Hang. But this motivation doesn't make the Hang an antecedente of the steel tongue drum.

You are also right that "the only things that care on Wikipedia are the sources". But there is something important to see: The one who makes a statement need a source, not the one who deletes a statement that has no source. There is no source given in the article for the statement that steelpan and Hang are antecedenti of the steel tongue drum. And I don't know any valid sources for this statement. Steel tongue drum manufacturers who state on their websites that their instruments are further developments of the Hang are not valid sources. That's just advertising. They want to profit from the popularity of the Hang.

The real predecessors of Dennis Havlena's instrument are mentioned in the English Wikipedia article Steel tongue drum: "The steel tongue drum had several predecessors, most notably the Whale Drum by Jim Doble and the Tambiro by Felle Vega". Dennis Havlena took the idea for his instrument directly from the Tambiro.

These are the reasons why I think we should delete steelpan and Hang as antecedenti of the steel tongue drum in the article because it is false (as I explained above) and there is no valid source for this statement. If you agree edit the article please. For the moment I have only corrected the name: The correct name is Hang not hang drum (as source see for example Il richiamo del metallo). --78.94.169.220 (msg) 15:25, 29 set 2012 (CEST)

I forgot that I already had an user account "Ixkeys" in the Italian Wikipedia because I seldomly used ist. So here I am, Ixkeys. I wrote the paragraphs above. -Ixkeys (msg) 16:24, 29 set 2012 (CEST)

DH said that he invented this instrument cause of a love for the sound, music and idea of the hang drum. If we didn't consider the hang like the father of the steel tongue drum, that sentence wouldn't have any meaning, don't you think?

P.S. The steelpan depends only by the presence of the hang, so the point is only the hang. --Horcrux92. ^(contattami) 17:59, 29 set 2012 (CEST)

So I think we have a first consensus: As the steelpan never had any influence on the creation of the tank drum we should delete it in Antecedenti. The indirect relationship via Hang would be appropriate only if there were any aspects of the steelpan that influenced the Hang also influenced the steel tongue drum. But there aren't any.

About Hang: In the statement you quoted Dennis Havlena is talking about his motivation. This doesn't make the Hang a predecessor of the steel tongue drum in the sense of organology. Havlena's basic instrument idea was to cut tongues in the top of a propane gas tank. This was a modification of the Tambiro. The techniques and functions came from the Tambiro and from the wooden tongue drums, not from the Hang. I think that the quote by Dennis Havlena is not a valid source for Wikipedia. It is just personal opinion. I think by now nobody has ever dealt with the organology of steel tongue drums. Therefor it is better to abandon a statement if it is controversial. Everything else would be "original research". --Ixkeys (msg) 17:36, 30 set 2012 (CEST)

For half a year my arguments were not answered or disproved. I think this is enough time to decide that they are valid. Therefor I will delete the Antecedenti statement. -Ixkeys (msg) 18:10, 15 mar 2013 (CET)

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Collegamenti esterni modificati

Gentili utenti,

ho appena modificato 1 collegamento esterno sulla pagina Steel tongue drum. Per cortesia controllate la mia modifica. Se avete qualche domanda o se fosse necessario far sì che il bot ignori i link o l'intera pagina, date un'occhiata a queste FAQ. Ho effettuato le seguenti modifiche:

• Aggiunta del link all'archivio https://web.archive.org/web/20121001004504/http://www.gombadrums.de/ per http://www.gombadrums.de/

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Saluti.—InternetArchiveBot (Segnala un errore) 09:59, 2 ago 2019 (CEST)